Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

508

Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs

by Mad Sweeney in

the watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.

they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.

" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.

Olin Moyles Ghost

My good friend, MadJW--I identified several on the FIRST page of this thread. You're not going to see any of these in the Kingdom Ministry's suggested presentations.

Luke 21:8 : He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them. [In other words, Jesus said don't follow religious leaders who say The End is near.]

Matthew 8:11 : But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens. [so Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in heaven?]

Luke 10:7 : So stay in that house, eating and drinking the things they provide, for the worker is worthy of his wages. Do not be transferring from house to house. [this verse explicitly states NOT to go house-to-house]

60

"We're Sooo Deep In This Time Of the End"

by minimus in

jw
friends

i heard that many in my jw family are seriously crowing those words.. do witnesses have short memories or what??.

they sound more like false prophets to me.

they can't keep crying wolf..

Olin Moyles Ghost

NVL: Whenever I hear one of them say that I always ask, "So has the King of the North been unmasked? Are we in the Great Tribulation right now?"
Bingo. I like to ask "when will babylon the great, the harlot, be destroyed? I mean, all the governments, the UN, everyone, has to decide to turn on all false religion, ALL of Christianity, ALL of Islam, ALL Hindus, ALL Buddhists, ALL Hari Krishas.....all of them and every other religion I mentioned has to be outlawed, attacked, destroyed by the governments of the world. There is social inertia that just won't allow that to happen overnight. I mean, in the US alone, at least, The president, the house, the senate would all have to be presuaded to turn on religion that many of them practice, on their friends, to declare marshall law or otherwise change to constitution to outlaw religion....I don't see that happening on a moments notice. The governements in the middle east would have to outlaw themselves, in fact!"

Well put. Long before I came to grips with the truth about my religion, I had a difficult time understanding how all governments were going to suddenly destroy all religions. Witnesses tried to make a big deal out of any perceived governmental hostility to religion--this was easier to do back during the cold war days because of the Communist Bloc. But over the past 20 years, freedom of religion has increased worldwide. This doesn't jibe with JW eschatology at all.

Just take the United States as an example. As a practical matter, in order to be elected to statewide or national office, you must profess a religion--and in almost all states/districts that religion must be some form of Christianity.

So, according to WTS eschatology, society is going to take a 180, going from REQUIRING that their leaders be religious, to BANNING religion. That's so absurd it's almost funny. It puts the JWs in good company with the New World Order conspiracy theorists.

282

What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

by theMadJW in

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i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

Olin Moyles Ghost

MadJW: A 'dialogue', in your mind, appears to be acceptance of anything science says. Sorry; I don't belong to THAT church.

My Response:

Thank you for continuing to discredit your position. Please continue dodging the issues and setting up strawmen. It bolsters my position more than any argument I can make. Best regards, Olin.

77

DC 2010 Releases and info

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

sorry i have been very busy and forgot.

as promised.

friday afternoon.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the intel, JWF!

282

What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

by theMadJW in

.

i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

Olin Moyles Ghost

MadJW, your lack of a coherent response to my points speaks volumes.

Let me know if you're ever interested in actually engaging in a dialogue.

11

JW Magistrate?

by GromitSK in

i friend of mine told me today that her son has applied to become a magistrate (in the uk).

magistrates have to swear two oaths: an oath of allegiance and a judicial oath but apparently he has sought permission and has been told this is ok. is that right?.

see below for the required format: .

Olin Moyles Ghost

There is a loophole that allows JWs to take certain "loyalty oaths." This was in a QFR in the 1970s, I believe. This was necessary because--in the U.S. anyway--you had to sign an oath of allegiance in order to get a passport.

Poster Marvin Shlmer did a nice write-up on the passport hypocrisy a couple years ago, and Barbara Anderson posted it on her site. See http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/2008_Jehovahs_Witnesses_and_National_Oaths_of_Allegiance.pdf.

7

" ...a time and times and half a time..."

by Yan Bibiyan in

nudged by mentallyfree31's thread on 607/587 (original thread here) , i have wondered lately if another angle can be used in deconstructing the 1914 cornerstone year.

the 607 year is only important because it gives a starting point to the 2,520 years calculated from neb's dream.

the "calculation" hinges, among other houses of cards, on the 3 1/2 component, derived from the dan 7:25 and rev 14:14 " ...a time and times and half a time..." now, this adds up to 3 1/2 only if "times" means "2 times".

Olin Moyles Ghost

I had the same question as a child. Why does "times" necessarily equal two times? Couldn't it be three, four, seven, forty-two, etc? Of course, the answer was that's what the FDS says it means, and that was good enough for me.

My favorite line of attack against 1914 (and there are so many, aren't there?) is the whole idea of a second fulfillment. In short, there is nothing in the Bible that ties the prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of insanity to a second fulfillment over 2000 years later.

22

Are Jehovah Witness Members Trolling Obituaries For New Recruits?

by Bangalore in

are jehovah witness members trolling obituaries for new recruits?.

http://dullardmush.blogspot.com/2009/02/are-jehovah-witness-members-trolling.html.

bangalore.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I know JWs who have done this for years. It's a great way for pioneers to "start their time." Simply write a short letter in the morning before leaving the house for service. Then drop the letter off at the post office on the way home from service. This techinque easily adds an hour of service time per day.

282

What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

by theMadJW in

.

i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

Olin Moyles Ghost

MadJW, if you're going to respond to my posts, please read them first. I will address your points because I thought you and I were capable of having civil discourse on this board, as we did on the other thread.

MadJW: Wrong, Casper! Genesis opens stating that the Earth already existed as a formless waste BEFORE the Creative "Days" began, and the second chapter opens referring to the Earth being made in A "Day".

My response: I agree with this statement, and if you would actually read my previous post you would recognize that you are attacking a strawman. Nowhere do I contend that the Bible says the Earth was not a formless waste before the creative days. I'm well-aware of the so-called "gap theory" that creationists such as the WTS and other fundamentalists use. That's why I said "the Genesis creation account clearly states that the earth was formed and populated over the course of six literal days." I anticipated your gap-theory rebuttal. Genesis says the earth was form-less before the first creative day, then starting on day 1, it began to be formed (separating oceans from dry ground, etc.) and populated (plants, animals).

So, that should dispose of that little diversion.

MadJW: And who says clergy, or WTBS? Can't you think without mindless attack?

My response: Looks like I struck a nerve here. I certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings by discussing clergy. You of all people should appreciate a little criticism of the clergy, right? But let's not get distracted from my point that fundamentalists, including WTS/JW followers take the word of clergy over the word of scientists in matters of science.

MadJW: How about Facts- NOT Theory! Science doesn't even know what "Life" is- yet pretends to know how it developed into such amazing mechanisms...on its OWN! THAT is what takes the church's version of 'Faith'- believing in such nonsense.

My response: So is this your reason for believing your clergy in matters of science? Sounds like you're being a bit defensive here. I guess I could play the same game. For example, you fundamentalists believe that all the problems in the world are the result of two naked people and a talking snake. Talk about nonsense!

12

Help deconstructing argument :)

by leo999 in

hi , this is a part of an email sent by my bro to a 'friend ' the ' friend ' needs some help in pulling his arguments apart .

any takers ?

:)) btw , the 'friend' is a pretend bible study , ex catholic :)).

Olin Moyles Ghost

To piggy-back on Black Sheep's comment about seeming contradictions about who goes to heaven, take a look at Matthew 8:11, where Jesus is quoted as saying "I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

As you know, the JWs teach that the Old Testament folks didn't (and won't) go to heaven. Kinda makes this verse stick out like a sore thumb, eh?